Bava Metzia 139

Chapter 139

א ונהגו בני כופרא אגרא בשעת משיכה פגרא בשעת שבירה אטו במנהגא תליא מילתא משום דמתניתא תניא מנהגא
1 and the practice of shipowners<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'the pitchers', those who pitch their boats. ');"><sup>1</sup></span> is [to receive] the hire at the time of <i>meshikah</i><span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Glos. ');"><sup>2</sup></span>
ב אמר רב ענן אמר שמואל מעות של יתומים מותר להלוותן ברבית אמר ליה רב נחמן משום דיתמי נינהו ספינא להו איסורא יתמי דאכלי דלאו דידהו ליזלו בתר שבקייהו אמר ליה אימא לי איזו גופא דעובדא היכי הוה
2 and the [payment for] loss when it is shipwrecked. But does such a thing depend upon custom?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' It depends upon whether it is permissible or not, for were the latter the case, such usage would have to be abrogated. ');"><sup>3</sup></span> — The usage arose as the result of the Baraitha which was taught.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Supra 69b end. ');"><sup>4</sup></span>
ג אמר ליה ההוא דודא דבני מר עוקבא דהוה בי מר שמואל תקיל ויהיב ליה תקיל ושקיל ליה שקיל אגרא ושקיל פחתא אי אגרא לא פחתא ואי פחתא לא אגרא
3 R. 'Anan said in Samuel's name: Orphan's money may be lent out at interest.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., if they are minors. ');"><sup>5</sup></span> R. Nahman objected: Because they are orphans we are to feed them with forbidden food! Orphans who eat what is not rightfully theirs may follow their testator! Now tell me, said he, what actually transpired?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Nahman assumed that R. 'Anan had not actually heard such a law from Samuel, but must have deduced it from some incident. ');"><sup>6</sup></span>
ד אמר ליה כי הא אפילו בדקנני נמי שרי למיעבד דהא מקבלי עלייהו חוסכא דנחשא דכמה דמקלי נחשא בציר דמיה
4 — He replied: A cauldron, belonging to the children of Mar 'Ukba [who were orphans], was in Samuel's care, and he weighed it before hiring it out and weighed it when receiving it back, charging for its hire and for its loss of weight: but if a fee for hiring, there should be no charge for depreciation, and if a charge for depreciation, there should be no fee for hiring.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. p. 405, n. 2; the same reasoning applies here, and therefore he concluded that interest may be taken on orphan's money. ');"><sup>7</sup></span> He replied: Such a transaction is permitted even to bearded men, since he [the owner] stands the loss of wear and tear, for the more the copper is burnt, the greater is its depreciation.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Though the hirer pays for actual loss of weight, yet even the rest loses in value the more often it is placed upon the fire, and therefore the hiring fee is not interest. ');"><sup>8</sup></span>
ה אמר רבה בר שילא אמר רב חסדא ואמרי לה אמר רבה בר יוסף בר חמא אמר רב ששת מעות של יתומים מותר להלוותן קרוב לשכר ורחוק להפסד
5 Rabbah b. Shilah said in R. Hisdah's name — others state, Rabbah b. Joseph b. Hama said in R. Shesheth's name: Money belonging to orphans may be lent on terms that are near to profit and far from loss.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the orphans taking a share of the profit, but none of the loss. Though this is forbidden to adults as indirect interest, the Rabbis permitted it in the case of orphans who, being unable to earn money themselves, might soon be reduced to penury if not permitted to put out their money on advantageous terms. ');"><sup>9</sup></span> Our Rabbis taught: [One who invests money on terms] near to profit but far from loss is a wicked man; near to loss but far from profit is a pious man; near to both or far from both — that is the arrangement of the man in the street.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' 'Near to both' — taking more than half the profit, and standing more than half the loss; 'far from both' — less than half the profit or loss. ');"><sup>10</sup></span>
ו תנו רבנן קרוב לשכר ורחוק להפסד רשע קרוב להפסד ורחוק לשכר חסיד קרוב לזה ולזה רחוק מזה ומזה זו היא מדת כל אדם
6 Rabbah asked R. Joseph: What is done with orphan's money? — He replied: It is entrusted to Court, and paid out to them in instalments.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'coin by coin.' ');"><sup>11</sup></span> But surely the principal will disappear! he urged. What then would you do? he asked. — He replied: We seek out a man who possesses broken pieces of gold,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Then they are certainly his, for when money is given into the safe-keeping of others, only proper coins are given — i.e., a wealthy person is sought. ');"><sup>12</sup></span>
ז אמר ליה רבה לרב יוסף הני זוזי דיתמי היכי עבדינן להו אמר ליה מותבינן להו בי דינא ויהבינן להו זוזא זוזא א"ל והא קא כליא קרנא
7 take the gold from him,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [Omitted in some texts, v. Rashal and D.S.] ');"><sup>13</sup></span> and entrust to him the orphan's money on terms that are near to profit and far from loss. But an object which bears an identification mark<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., any object which a person may claim as his own on the strength of identification marks. ');"><sup>14</sup></span>
ח אמר ליה מר היכי עביד אמר ליה בדקינן גברא דאית ליה דהבא פריכא ונקטינן דהבא מיניה ויהבינן להו ניהליה קרוב לשכר ורחוק להפסד אבל דבר מסוים לא דלמא פקדון נינהו ואתי מריה יהיב סימנין ושקיל ליה
8 cannot [be taken as a security]<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [Or, as proof of wealth.] ');"><sup>15</sup></span> lest it was [merely] entrusted to him, and its owner may come, state the mark [which proves his ownership] and take it away. R. Ashi demurred: That is well if you find a man who possesses broken gold; but if you do not, is the orphan's money to be frittered away? — But, said R. Ashi, we seek out a man whose property is secure,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., whose ownership thereof is universally acknowledged. ');"><sup>16</sup></span>
ט אמר רב אשי תינח אי משתכח גברא דאית ליה דהבא פריכא אי לא משתכח גברא דאית ליה דהבא פריכא ניכלו זוזי דיתמי אלא אמר רב אשי חזינן גברא דמשפו נכסיה ומהימן ושמע דינא דאורייתא ולא מקבל שמתא דרבנן ויהבינן להו ניהליה בבי דינא
9 who is trustworthy, obedient to the law of the Bible,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [MS.M. rightly omits 'of the Bible', there being no distinction between Rabbinic and Biblical law in regard to the obedience expected of a man to be entrusted with orphan's money.] ');"><sup>17</sup></span> and will not suffer a ban of the Rabbis,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who will obey them rather than come under their ban. ');"><sup>18</sup></span> and the money is given to him in the presence of a <i>Beth din</i>.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That he may be duly impressed with the solemnity of his obligations (Asheri). ');"><sup>19</sup></span>
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